Breaking the trance: How to reach people when politics turns dangerous
A conversation with cult expert Dr. Steven Hassan.
For many of us who’ve known or feared the threat of violence, danger isn’t just experienced from an assault. It’s in the looks, the questions, the moments before a situation tips from tension into something worse. It is in these moments that one wonders, “How can I stop it?”
I get the sense that a lot of people are wondering this about the attacks on democracy and freedom by President Trump and his allies right now. I say “a lot,” not all, because a new survey from my home state of Maine notes that about 98% of Republicans said they support Trump’s performance in his first month on the job. One percent of Democrats gave a thumbs up.
I recently spoke with
, an expert on authoritarian influence and cult psychology, about what it takes to reach people who seem unreachable. On his podcast, The Influence Continuum, he told me that his own break from the Moonies — a group that convinced him, a Jewish kid from Queens, that the Holocaust was justified — wasn’t triggered by facts or logic. It was his father’s tears.That small, human crack broke the spell. It reminded him who he was.
I recognized that from my own work. Reporting from Trump rallies, progressive marches and tense standoffs, I’ve seen people trapped in a “trance,” beliefs hardening into identity. Dissent feeling like betrayal. Anger simmering, ready to boil over.
That’s what happened to me outside the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. A man demanded to know who I worked for and lunged at me when he found out. What disarmed the threat wasn’t a confrontation. It was a joke. Someone else in the crowd called me “middle-aged.” I shot back, “What about me says middle-aged?” Laughter rippled through the tension.
The trance broke.
It’s not always that simple. But what Steven and I came back to again and again in our conversation is that breaking these cycles — whether you’re trying to pull someone from an authoritarian movement, rebuild trust after trauma, or heal a democracy — requires something deeply human.
Curiosity.
Humility.
Presence.
It’s not weakness. It’s work. Hard work.
Because when people feel seen — truly seen, not as enemies or stereotypes — the walls can crack. And when the trance breaks, even for a moment, we can start finding our way back to each other.
I’ll leave you with the conversation I had with Dr. Steven Hassan (above), a viewing guide (below), and the wish that we each examine the trances that separate us from ourselves and others.
Viewing guide:
4:47 — Covering the 2025 People's March and the January 6 2021 insurrection
An exploration of returning to report on social movements after a years-long hiatus from protest coverage following the Jan. 6 attack.
Trauma collapses the past, present, and future, shaping how we experience and narrate events. “Anyone who has experienced trauma knows that time is not necessarily linear... we’re going to weave in and out of time.”
I discuss the growing animosity and distrust towards the media and government under the first Trump administration, and the physical and emotional dangers I faced for being a journalist.
I challenges simplistic narratives — Trump’s support base is more racially diverse than many liberals assume, and racism can exist across racial lines. “White supremacy doesn’t just live in white bodies.”
12:03 — Impact of Trauma and Healing Process
I share the complex PTSD I experienced following the January 6 insurrection and how workplaces can help or harm individuals experiencing trauma.
I discuss the importance of healing and reinvesting in one’s sense of self and identity.
15:50 — Humor as a Humanizing Force
Humor can disarm aggression, restore humanity and shifted dynamics. Levity became a tool for survival on Jan. 6.
19:16 — The Role of Mental Health in Democracy
Transforming pain into resilience is not weakness but profound fortitude. “For so long, the narrative was that if you talk about stuff, it’s a weakness... but healing is a strength.”
Steven and I discuss the importance of mental health in creating an educated and empathetic electorate, the challenges of addressing mental health issues in the media and the need for more compassionate and understanding coverage.
Steven shares his personal experience of being in a cult and the process of deprogramming and becoming a mental health professional.
Kate and Steven emphasize the need for fact-checking and critical thinking.
34:17 — Addressing the Cult of Trump and Authoritarianism
Steven explains his influence continuum model, which differentiates between ethical influence and authoritarian mind control.
Kate and Steven discuss the complexity of Trump supporters and the need to understand the different levels of involvement and influence.
Self-censorship and moral compromise erode individual wellbeing and corrode society. “You are afraid to say what you think... you’re disabling your authentic self.” / “People have to begin abandoning themselves to align with the lie.”
Kate shares her observations of Christian nationalism among Trump supporters and the importance of addressing the underlying issues.
We talk about the role of moral injury in the context of Trump's actions and the need for critical thinking and self-reflection.
47:41 — The Importance of Civil Discourse and Community Building
Kate and Steven emphasize the need for civil discourse and understanding the underlying roots of societal problems.
We discuss the importance of community building and the role of family and friends in influencing people's beliefs and actions.
Steven shares his approach to engaging with people who hold different beliefs, focusing on respectful and compassionate conversations.
We highlight the importance of self-compassion and the need to build the capacity to sit with discomfort and contradictions.
51:06 — The Role of Technology and Media in Shaping Public Opinion
Kate and Steven discuss the impact of technology and social media on public opinion and the need for digital detox and mental hygiene.
We talk about the role of platforms like TikTok and Instagram in shaping public discourse and the potential for censorship and manipulation.
Steven emphasizes the importance of independent journalism and the need for platforms that promote fact-checking and critical thinking. (Please seriously consider paying for the knowledge, skills, time and energy that goes into it.)
We discuss the role of authoritarian regimes in using technology to control their citizens and the need for vigilance and awareness.
56:47 — The Future of Democracy and Mental Health
We discuss the future of democracy and the importance of addressing mental health issues in the context of political polarization. -
Kate emphasizes the need for systems thinking and the role of complex systems in understanding and addressing societal problems.
Steven shares his vision for a future focused on planetary survival and the need for brilliant individuals to come up with real solutions. -
We discuss the importance of community building and the role of love and compassion in overcoming fear and division.
1:09:16 — Conclusion and Final Thoughts
We wrap up the conversation by emphasizing the importance of self-awareness, community building and critical thinking.
We discuss the need for more civil discourse and the role of family and friends in influencing people's beliefs and actions.
Steven shares his approach to engaging with people who hold different beliefs, focusing on respectful and compassionate conversations.
We highlight the importance of self-compassion and the need to build the capacity to sit with discomfort and contradictions.
Perhaps we should be protesting in front of Fox, Sinclair and Murdoch Headquarters!
Shut down the Propaganda Machines!!!
Or hack them…change the narrative.